Sarrain

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Rory inhaled. "No, you don't. Because I said you don't, I thereby can't call on a favor."

And then Broen got into the thick of it. Nice. And Rory's face looked a little more pinched afterward. Not annoyed, no, but something in that vein. "That's a strawman argument because you have to know that intention matters. Sure, some people do nice things because it'll get them something because they feel guilty, or they expect good karma, but that isn't the only reason people do good things.

"You and I both know intention is the difference between you doing something for money or you doing something just because you could, with no gain involved. That difference is staggering. Sometimes doing the kind thing is getting fucked over, because it's not usually easy. The payoff of a mental back pat doesn't usually compare to a genuine act of kindness."
 

Kada

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"Wow, Rory. You've done what only Edmund Eldritch ever managed before now. You're wrong in two fucking dimensions." He sat down on the edge of his coffee table and leaned forward so that he could rest his elbows on his knees. A weird sight, except maybe for Rory herself who knew how her own insane flexibility worked.

"A Christian does good things, even at risk of personal safety, because they think they're going to Heaven for it. Even if you don't believe in a legit afterlife, most people think that doing things is only worth it if you have to struggle and suffer for it. Which is, again, fuckin' stupid. You do good things that suck because you think it makes you an even better person than doing good things that don't suck."
 

Sarrain

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"Even thinking that most people aren't willing to go through that struggle or suffering. By nature, people take the easy way. Whether it's to leave something behind or gain something. Sure, some people might risk their lives, their reputations, their everything to feel like a good person, but you can't deny it's not an even pay off. For someone who thinks people are so selfishly inclined, I'm not sure why you'd think someone feeling 'man, I'm a good person' is just not worth it to the mass majority."

And Rory wondered if Broen was using the royal you. She leaned forward as he was, using her hands to balance her chin, eyes a little narrowed in thought. "Is that why you think I do good things? Because it makes me feel good about myself? Because you think it makes me think I'm better than you?"
 

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Broen smirked and shook his head. "You're so wrong. Basic economic theory, Rat Girl. People will only go for X if they think it is worth giving up Y. It's all subjective. To the people that go out of their way? Yeah. That little bit of auto-fellatio they get on their ego is well worth the risk. As for you..."

He looked her over, considering for a moment. Then he shrugged. "You think you're making the world a better place and that you have, what? Some duty to do good? I dunno. I'm not in your head, and you're not in mine."
 

Sarrain

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Rory switched seats to sit beside him. This was nice. "I'll give you that," she said after some thought. "It's a trick question. A paradox.

"Selfishness is a particular ideal, one where the satisfaction of personal desires and the fulfillment of momentary pleasure is the end goal. For people who cling to this ideal, good deeds become a paradox. That ideal self reduces pleasure to a zero-sum play in which any charitable or act centered around others must inevitably involve a loss of personal desire. Either we are helping ourselves, or we are self-sacrificing and allowing others to help themselves; there is no concept of mutuality.

"But, when we begin to give up this self-indulgent ideal, we discover that there is a more meaningful pleasure that can only be experienced between people and never alone. This is the pleasure of the shared experience. Good conversation, friendship, love, deep sensuality, and fully engaged sex. It’s what the mass majority live and long for. Following that thought, we find that the most profound and fulfilling satisfaction are those in which the sense of self dissolves entirely, and we act not out of selfishness, but out of passion, compassion, and rightness that has little to do with ourselves.

"We reach for this ever-expanding goal in which we are happy because others are happy and because joy is the natural state of humankind.

"It's too limiting to consider these acts as only selfishness."
 

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"Holy shit, Rat Girl. What nonsense have you been fucking reading? You're like... holy shit you're like Jay after a bowl of Mid." Broen laughed, practically doubling over. "You think anyone gives a shit about this high minded idealistic bullshit?"

Broen shook his head. "That all sounds nice, but it's not fuckin' practical or useful in any real world situation."
 

Sarrain

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Dammit, he wasn't supposed to break her concentration by laughing and making a joke. Because if he was laughing so was she when the tension suddenly snapped and it was just the two of them sitting there, shoulder to shoulder laughing like a couple of fucking idiots.

And just to make sure, because Rory was smart on a number of things, all of which didn't include drugs or street slang, she asked, "Mid's weed right?"

And she gave him a gentle nudge with her shoulder. "Wrong. Knowing the human mind and how the collective thinks is always useful and practical. Just because something sounds flowery doesn't mean it doesn't make a good point. And only partially idealistic. I like to mix in a good deal of cynicism about people being sheep, too."

Rory grinned. "That was fun. You're a pretty good conversationalist."
 

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Broen continued to laugh and put an arm around Adrastia's shoulder, shaking get a little before pushing her away. "You're not so bad yourself. Who knew you could be halfway decent at conversation when half the things you talk to are rats and the other half is your team. Fuck. You're wild."
 

Sarrain

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"Hey! Rats are great. They have a lot of, uh.... oh fuck. No, they're terrible. I used to talk to my classrooms pet mouse and I'm sure you can imagine how that worked out. All I'm saying is, this is not the first time I've been called rat girl."

When their laughter died down, Rory found she was still smiling. Yeah, that was a nice debate. Argument. Whatever you wanted to call it. It was a good bit of honesty laid out in the open.

It was relaxing enough that Rory didn't even mind saying, "damn, you make me nervous."
 

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The laughter died down and the two of them were left just grinning like idiots. "Man. Guess all the odd ball kids really do end up putting on masks."

Broen looked at Rory and kind of stared at her for a good long while. "Yeah? Why's that? I mean... just curious. I make a lot of people uncomfortable, but it's rare I get 'nervous'."
 
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