Romi

Secretly a Bird
Administrator
Supporter
Jun 18, 2015
10,109
Gender
Female
Pronouns
She/Her
Posting Status
Irregularly
"No, not all of them," Angelo admitted with a wince. Yes, they'd done bad things. Yes, they'd hurt people. Some of them--the dead one--were scumbags. He'd meant the group as a whole. "But some of them. Sometimes good people feel pushed into a corner. Like they don't have options. And sometimes they make bad choices. But most people--most people in this earth--are good people."

Angelo believed that. He really did. And he wanted Shay to believe it to. That most people were intrinsically good.

Angelo frowned as she continued.

"Not for money," Angelo corrected. "For family. I wasn't a hitman, taking cash to kill. For me it was honor and protecting the family. But even then, I regret it. I wish I hadn't."

Maybe it should have been more of a relief she hadn't killed someone, but Angelo's opinion hadn't fallen quite that far. He hadn't believed she had. He was just struggling to believe she could.

"How you feel about those actions count to. Someone who killed and shrugs and someone who killed and regrets it are different. How you feel about human life matters. All that stuff comes into account in the end."

He didn't answer the question she'd posed - was he any different? Because to Angelo, he was - he would never take another life without it being an act to save people from harm. To him, the differences were night and day, even if to Shay they were all a muddled grey.

 

Sarrain

The Salt Sea
Inactive
Supporter
Jan 30, 2016
6,703
Arizona
Pronouns
She/Her
Posting Status
Daily, Weekly

Shay shook her head, even as she agreed with him. "Yes, most people are good. That is why I help them, even when they annoy me. That's why I even help the "bad" ones. But good people do bad, stupid things, and death does not discriminate between the wicked and the innocent.

"Would it have been any worse of me to kill the wolves for holding us all captive? Hurting many of us? Threatening us? Getting two innocent children shot down and another wounded? For hurting people themselves."

Shay didn't smile; she looked solemn. "No. We don't get to decide what is good or bad based on our different perceptions of the world. I will agree with you that life is dear, but so is death. And neither exists without the other."

When he defended his actions, Shay did smile, just a little. It didn't hold any humor, though. "Yes. For family. So they could have money. That's what organized crime is all about. They preach family, but it's about money. Just like Klaus preached family when it was never about family.

"Your belief that you did it for honor and family was just naivety. You were no better than a hitman, Angelo. You killed so your family was fed and well-cared for. You're not like that now, but it doesn't change that you did those things. Regret them all you like; it doesn't bring back a child's lost father. Or a mother's lost son.

"Are you upset because I seem so cold about it all? Maybe I am. I can see it like this, for what it all is. That doesn't mean I take pleasure in it, but I won't lie to myself or anyone else. I won't hide behind beliefs.

"Charlie thought genocide was the right thing because human were scum. That doesn't make him right, but it doesn't make you right, either. You're all hiding behind the idea that what you're doing is the right thing. Or that it had some meaning. I'm willing to admit I'd play "bad guy" for the people I love and I won't sweeten it up by saying I felt I had no other choice. I know it would just be the quickest choice. I'd sooner take on the guilt and the burden just as it is."


 

Romi

Secretly a Bird
Administrator
Supporter
Jun 18, 2015
10,109
Gender
Female
Pronouns
She/Her
Posting Status
Irregularly
He was upset that she seemed so cold about it all. Even if he might have denied it, it was the truth. Shay was clinical, like a technician that had seemed death a thousand times, only to Angelo it was all warped.

"Intentions matter," Angelo said. "The reasons people do things matter, even if the result is the same. I was a kid doing things because of family, and looking back I know it was for greed and money, but the reasons I did them matter. Just like with Charlie. Charlie was going to wipe out everyone because he was bored. He didn't even hate humanity. It was just something for him to do. To prove he could. That's wrong." How could she not see it was wrong? How could she act like it was normal, like the two viewpoints were equal? They weren't equal. Not to Angelo. They were night and day and the idea that, to Shay, they were equal was horrifying.

"Its not - you don't have to take any guilt or any burden. You don't have to do bad things. You can choose to do good things, to make the world better." That was why he was a cop. It had been a major deciding factor for him--that he could help people and make up for the things he'd done. That he could feel like he was making a difference.

 

Sarrain

The Salt Sea
Inactive
Supporter
Jan 30, 2016
6,703
Arizona
Pronouns
She/Her
Posting Status
Daily, Weekly

Shay thought about this. "They do to an extent. But a hitman would say the same thing. He did it for his family. So why do you think you were better than that?

"Charlie wanting to wipe out humanity for any reason is stupid. And it's a death sentence. It's.... yes wrong. And "bad." By standardized viewpoints. There is no gain to doing something like that, especially considering he'd have wiped out himself by that logic. But I'm not talking about Charlie. Objectively, genocide is as stupid as it is subjectively.

"I'm talking everything else. You want to believe that just because you do good things, Angelo, that all those bad things you've done are being made up for. They aren't. These good things you do, they don't give back on the bad you've committed. It doesn't help the people you wronged. Nothing ever will. They live every day with the loss of someone close to them.

"Viewing people as bad guys or good guys is contrived. It lets you believe you did the right thing. They were going to die anyway. They were bad people. Yada, yadda, yadda. There are parts of this ideology I adhere to. There are certain wrongs I believe must be met with death. When someone refuses to allow any goodness into their heart."

Shay herself was a little frustrated. He was looking at her like she was a monster. It hurt. It scared her. She wondered if she'd ever cared to openly say such things to Fitz if he'd look at her the same way too and made a mental note to do so before getting deep into this engagement process.

"And yes. I do. I should take guilt or burden of the bad things I would do. I choose to do many good things, and I've chosen not to hurt people even when it would have been the easier option because that wasn't who I wanted to be, but.... if I had not chosen to let those people live... that's on me. No matter what kind thing I do in the world, it will never subtract from that misdoing. The world doesn't work that way. It's not that black and white."

Shay searched his face. "And that scares you, doesn't it? 'Cause you think if you can't make up for all that bad then you must be bad." She paused, silence. She let Angelo take things in before adding. "I spoke to Charlie too. And I've spoken to many other "bad" people. Monsters who are afraid they may be monsters, well, they're no monsters, Angelo. I don't promise he'll never do something stupid or bad again, but I do know for whatever realize he feels guilty. Maybe not exactly remorseful, I'm not sure he can feel that anymore."

Shay stood up. She couldn't bear to sit there and stare into Angelo's eyes. He watched her like she was broken. But Shay was not broken, and she was sick of everyone telling her how she felt was wrong. It was just what she was. She didn't need anyone to come in and fix her.

"I'm not saying I think everything he did was fine. I'm not saying I agree with it. I'm just saying maybe you're projecting a bit. My job has and always will be balance Angelo. Balance needs the bad, the ugly, and the good. You may not be able to love those things, and you may never understand it, but I can. I can love and disapprove and hate everything all at the same time."

She played with her sleeves. She didn't want to hurt or to care what Angelo thought of her. She'd known going in that things would not be different here. She would still be a disappointment. A problem. A thing. A monster. Something bad.

"You know... I always feared I'd try to explain this and someone would give me that look. I can see it now. Why Reapers seem to always drift away from people. We seem so human, but then we're not. And we're not supposed to get close and emotional. It's a hell of a line the divine has drawn for us. You're lucky to be more human than me."

Shay sighed. "You think I'm some kind of monster now. You know... if that's what you think you should do something about it."


 

Romi

Secretly a Bird
Administrator
Supporter
Jun 18, 2015
10,109
Gender
Female
Pronouns
She/Her
Posting Status
Irregularly
At some point in the conversation Angelo's hand had wandered up to his pocket, his fingers rubbing the metal of the cross inside absentmindedly. He didn't wear it--it was considered sort of anti-demon to do so, even if it was within his rights--but it gave him a kind of solance.

"I don't think it erases them," Angelo says. "No amount of good deeds erase the bad. They don't bring the dead back to life. But they still matter. Good deeds and bad deeds are like poker chips, getting stacked up higher and higher, and if someone has a million good chips and one bad chip, that doesn't mean they're the same as someone with no good chips and one bad chip."

It mattered a lot to him. Maybe he should have taken a step back and been more calm and relaxed, but he couldn't. He was too close to the subject. It was something he'd thought about a lot.

"You weren't there when Charlie talked about it. It was casual, like how I'd talk about what we're having for dinner. Maybe he's not evil. Maybe he's not going to take over the world right now. But he might. How many people do you think he's killed, exactly? Thousands? More than that?" He knew very little about Charlie, too little to guess, but Angelo was fairly sure the answer was more then that. Maybe he was biased.

"I don't - I don't think you're a monster, Shay. I don't think you're evil. I just... I just don't think you need to be willing to tolerate that kind of evil in the world. I don't think you have to embrace it. You can treat everything equally without accepting it."

He did. Even if he hated Charlie, even if he thought he was evil, he'd treat him just the same as everyone else. He'd just be prepared for it--for the inevitable moment when Charlie got too bored of life on the island.

 

Sarrain

The Salt Sea
Inactive
Supporter
Jan 30, 2016
6,703
Arizona
Pronouns
She/Her
Posting Status
Daily, Weekly

Shay looked over her shoulder at Angelo with his hand in his pocket. She was too distracted staring at that to reply right away. It wasn't his gun, she surmised. A rosary, maybe?

"How many people do I think Charlie has killed? I know. I can hear them all, remember? The last things they said or thought. Just like I hear yours. The answer is a fuck ton."

She wondered the difference between tolerating this darkness, embracing it, and all that. She closed her eyes and wished for an answer to appear. But they never did. She didn't have reasons for the whys. She only could do what she thought was the right thing to do. And that rarely aligned with what others thought was right.

"I do. I do have to embrace it. To an extent. How can I be expected to judge the evil in the world if I refuse to walk among it? I have no right to judge a thing until I know it. Truly know it. And I know these types of people. I know evil, and I know good."

She sighed, rubbed at a war-torn face, dark circles evident now. She never thought she'd have this conversation with anyone. It made her chest hurt. It reminded Shay how very much she didn't belong in this world.

"I understand. I'm not sure why you're telling me about Charlie unless you want me to do something about it. Which I guess I am. But I understand."

Part of Shay wanted to ask Angelo to shoot her. It seemed less punishment than to have to remember that look in his eye now when he saw her. She'd not even stripped herself bare, and he could already barely look at her.

Shay had never felt like such a monster, so ashamed, as she did at that moment. She thought if Fitz ended up looking at her like that, too... Well, that would fucking suck, wouldn't it?

"I told you not to adopt me, didn't I? It's a damn good thing I'm eighteen now. I talked about it all the way he did, didn't I?" It wasn't a challenge, the next thing she asked, but Shay was genuinely curious. "Are you waiting for the moment I snap now, too? And if I do, are you going to be the one with my black card?"


 

Romi

Secretly a Bird
Administrator
Supporter
Jun 18, 2015
10,109
Gender
Female
Pronouns
She/Her
Posting Status
Irregularly
Angelo disagreed on so many different levels that in many ways he was struggling to keep focused at all. To not just say no, no, you're wrong to so much of what she said. He didn't want to interrupt. He didn't want to blurt it out. But it took a lot of effort to keep his mouth closed. To keep focus. To not look even more agitated then he already did, like he was going to leap from his chair and... what?

He didn't know what. He didn't want to hurt Shay. He didn't hate her. Maybe in a way his feelings were worse then that--the feeling that he'd never even known her at all.

"You don't... you don't have to judge it." Maybe she did. He didn't know. He knew he didn't have to, but maybe she did. He'd never thought to ask, assuming they worked differently. "To me, being a reaper isn't about judgement. It's about helping people pass on." Not judgement. That wasn't for him to decide. That was for someone far greater then him to decide, someone he could never hope to match.

Better that it be left to him.

"I was trying to warn you about Charlie. I don't know if he's evil. I just want you to be careful. I can't... I don't have anything that will let me stop him, if he goes wrong. You might. I don't know. But I don't. I can't forcibly reap something that's already stuck to this world like he is. It's not the same as a wandering soul."

But the last bit--about adopting her--was enough to make Angelo go slightly paler. He was serious. Painfully serious. His lips were a thin line, pressed tight together, and his hand squeezed at his pocket, needing the reminder.

"I would have still adopted you, Shay. Even if you have to judge. I wouldn't have kicked you out, even if I could. And I don't think you're going to snap."

Even if Shay felt she was the same, Angelo didn't agree.

 

Sarrain

The Salt Sea
Inactive
Supporter
Jan 30, 2016
6,703
Arizona
Pronouns
She/Her
Posting Status
Daily, Weekly

He was looking worse the longer they talked about it. Shay turned to him and ambled over. She wondered if he had his gun on him then, would he have been itching to grab it? She leaned over and kissed his forehead, just a brush of lips to skin before standing tall and lying a hand on his shoulder, trying to smile at him.

"You're a good person, Angelo," Shay said and squeezed his shoulder a little. "That's why I knew you should never have taken me in. You're too normal. I am not. I'd ruin you, or scare you. Look at your face! It's like you're staring at this crazed animal in the zoo."

She sighed. "I'll be careful. I'm a lot more careful than I used to be. I don't think he'd do anything to me of all people, but even if he does, I have something that can protect me from him. Don't worry about me, okay?"


 

Romi

Secretly a Bird
Administrator
Supporter
Jun 18, 2015
10,109
Gender
Female
Pronouns
She/Her
Posting Status
Irregularly
Angelo didn't have a gun on him. He didn't keep one on him when he was at home, although there was one close at hand--a gunsafe on the ground floor and one in his bedroom he could easily get into if needed. But at home? There was no need, so it stayed where it was.

He wouldn't have pulled it anyway. He looked more depressed then anything as she leaned down to kiss his forehead. It had gone wrong. Like someone had kicked his entire relationship with Shay so hard it had cracked.

Maybe not broken, but cracked.

"I believe," Angelo said, trying to sound as certain as he could. "That anyone who wants to can be forgiven. There's no such thing as a deed so evil it can't be. As long as they want to. As long as they try. That's what I believe."

Maybe Shay felt like she couldn't be forgiven, but Angelo didn't.

 

Sarrain

The Salt Sea
Inactive
Supporter
Jan 30, 2016
6,703
Arizona
Pronouns
She/Her
Posting Status
Daily, Weekly

Be forgiven? Shay wondered at what she was meant to be forgiven for? This was to her, yeah?

"I don't need to be forgiven for anything, Angelo. I don't ask for forgiveness when I do what I mean. And who would I ask forgiveness to, anyway? God?" She laughed a little, trying not to belittle his beliefs but all the same... God. Like they'd ever been there for her. "I ask forgiveness to those I have wronged. Last I checked, I haven't wronged you."

Her frown deepened. "I don't need to be fixed, Angelo, 'cause I'm not broken. This is who I am. The good, the bad, and the ugly. You're either going to accept that or you won't. Maybe one day you'll show me all of you, too. Maybe one day you can accept me for all I am. Klaus and Vito never could. Most people can't. It's fine. I'll be fine even if you can't."